Lots of people are still on autopilot, feeling trapped, all the things. But I, but I hear from women all the time, oh my god, I, I just know there's something different I'm supposed to be doing or more, or, but I don't know what it is. I have to figure it out. That, when you have those kinds of thoughts and feelings, that literally to me, is your soul going? We are on the wrong path. That's what was me. My soul was like, Julie, you're doing the right work, but you're in the wrong container. This isn't the container.
Welcome to RenewHer, a podcast for women over 50 ready to reignite their energy and explore what's next. I'm Genell Lemley, brain fitness coach. Here you'll hear real stories from women taking on new challenges after 50, along with brain health tips to boost focus, energy, and the mindset to move forward with confidence. Let's dive into today's episode.
Welcome to RenewHer, the podcast for women over 50 who are ready to explore what's next and cultivate a mindset built for growth, resilience, and possibility. Today's guest, Julie Cober, is someone whose journey I know will resonate deeply with many of you. First, I'll read her official bio, then I'll do more of what you could call an informal introduction.
So, Julie Cober is a certified executive leadership coach, fractional CHRO, podcast host of According to Who, two-time bestselling author, and the CEO and founder of the Legacy Leadership Academy, a global movement helping high-performing female executives build lives of success, satisfaction, and self-leadership.
With 28 years in senior HR leadership roles, including at Fortune 100 companies and global nonprofits, Julie now supports female executives, CEOs, and founders through bold reinventions from career exits to business mastery, second act entrepreneurship, midlife reinvention, and redefining what success personally means.
Her work blends deep corporate experience with powerful executive coaching, helping women scale with purpose, power, and authenticity. Julie believes we are rewriting the rules of leadership, proving that you can have wealth and wellbeing, success and soul, ambition and alignment. Through the Legacy Leadership Academy, she helps women design careers, businesses, and lives that they love and boldly take their seat at the table they choose.
So, Julie and I met about two years ago or so through a year-long mastermind we had both joined, and we co-authored an Amazon best-selling book, along with other members, titled All Out Impact. I have observed how her business has evolved over the past couple of years and is truly aligned with who she is and her purpose.
She is a woman who asked herself powerful and honest questions many women over 50 quietly wrestle with: Am I grateful for my career? Is it aligned with my true purpose? While she was grateful for the nearly three-decade career she built, she reached a moment of honest reflection, realizing that although she had been successful, her work was no longer aligned with her true purpose.
After wrestling with the idea of being her own boss, Julie made the courageous decision at 52 to leave corporate life and follow a dream even with the uncertainty, fear, and self-doubt that can come with change later in life. That decision didn't just change her career, it sparked something bigger. Today, she's leading a movement supporting female entrepreneurs and leaders as they return to their roots, shift from scarcity to abundance, and move from what-if thinking to building businesses and lives that truly light them up.
Julie supports ambitious women in shifting from what-if thinking to building businesses, confidence, and lives they truly love. All grounded in abundance, self-belief, and intentional legacy. This conversation is about courage, mindset, and what it really takes to trust yourself enough to build something new in the second half of life.
I am so thrilled to welcome Julie to the RenewHer podcast to share her story.
Welcome, Julie.
Thank you. Wow. What an intro. Wow. It actually brought me some tears, 'cause it, it has been a journey.
Yeah. It's very authentic and true to, to you and who you are.
Yes.
Yeah. Yes.
Yeah. Not always. I wasn't always that person, but I am now.
Thank you for having me.
You're welcome.
I’m thrilled.
I have so many questions, so, okay,
Good. Shoot.
Let's, let's dive in. Before we talk about your journey in making that pivot, I mean the actual pivot and really what led you up to that to leave corporate. But just take us back for a moment. From the outside, you were incredibly, incredibly successful. Senior leadership roles, financial security, influence, all of the things. Mm-hmm. So before, if you wanna say the shift, what did your life and career look like and what did success look like or mean to you back then?
I would say probably if somebody looked at my life, my career specifically from the outside in, it would appear like a complete trajectory up a mountain, like from base to summit. You know, you know, I always say to my clients, now, this isn't the way life goes. It's like this, it's like a jungle gym. But my career literally was like a shot up the mountain and very quickly, like I became a vice president when I was 31. Wow. And seven months pregnant with my son as well. They promoted me because they wanted to make sure I would come back.
Anyway, I always knew since I was a little girl that, I mean, I wouldn't have put it this way when I was young, but I've been put on this planet to help people. Like that, I know, like at the core. You know, you get asked all these questions, what's your zone of genius?
All the things mine is to help people. So, when I was little, I wanted to be a nurse, and I always had these kind of professions that was always in, in that realm. And then I fell in love with business. I went to school. I got my degree in psychology with a minor in business, and I thought, how can I put these two together?
How can I help people? I love people, I love, you know, I'm, I'm a four, six generator in human design, like community is my thing. And mix it with business. So, like, human resources just kind of popped up. I'm like, okay, this is what I need to do. So, when I graduated from university, I went and got a postgraduate degree in leadership and human resources, and the rest is history.
I took my first little entry-level job, but I knew from the get-go that I wanted to be at the top of that mountain, meaning the chief HR officer now as I cli, and so I was very successful. I was very successful. Climbing away, very ambitious, very driven.
Not really a hundred percent sure why. In the beginning, I loved my work. I really loved learning, which I still do today. I loved human resources. I loved what I, what became kind of my sweet spot in human resources, 'cause as you can imagine, that's a really big umbrella. Mm-hmm. What I really loved within it was creating, engaging, working, work environments.
So, where people can come to work, you know, 'cause we're working 40, 50, 60, some, 70 hours a week. I used to say to my team, well, like, let's make sure they like that they're coming here. And so what does that mean? So, we created these really engaging working environments. That was one big thing, which is community. Right? Now that I know my human design, I know that. No wonder I wanted to do that.
And then the other big piece that I loved was mentoring and coaching and watching and working with these other leaders and watching them soar. But you know, the more I went up the ladder or up the mountain, whatever you wanna say, the further I got away from that. Because when you're a chief HR officer, you're in strategy, you're in creating budgets, you're presenting to the board, you're doing a whole bunch of things, right, that are not in the trenches with the troops necessarily.
Now, of course, I was still mentoring and coaching my direct reports and all the things, but it just, the container of what I loved to do was changing. So, you know, I was successful. I still loved my work. I just didn't like the avenue that we were going down in the corporate world. And what the other big thing, which is what, what I focus a lot on now with the women that I work with is what is required of us to succeed at that level.
And so back to your question, what did success look like? When I got to the sort of vice president above, success looked like sacrifice, hustle, grind, missing kids, appointments. Missing, like I have a picture here on my desk of my daughter, and she's now 27 and this picture of is of her coming out of her first day of kindergarten.
And I keep it there because my husband, thank the Lord, had the wherewithal to take a photo back in the days, no phones, like an actual photo. And she is like in the air off the ground with this huge backpack on her back. She's elated. And I missed that day. I wasn't there. And I used to tell that story, and I used to tweak it a little bit 'cause I had such insane guilt around it that I used to say that I couldn't get out of a meeting.
We had a big budget meetings and I had to present my budget and my company wouldn't let me switch it. And honest to God, I'm gonna be totally honest, that was a lie. I chose the meeting over my daughter's first day of school. So, some people go, no big deal, whatever. That was a big deal to me. I did, and I, I'm only using that example because mm-hmm.
There's many of those where I believed because I was in this big executive, important, important, quote unquote, role with this big salary and this big responsibility that, that needed to come first before any of my children's activities or birthday parties or, you know, all of that. So, when I, you know, kind of got closer to, hmm, this isn't working anymore.
What I really realized is, you know, I use a fist all the time. I, I, my life was, this was my job and everything else needed to revolve around that, and I wanted to move it to this. My fist being my family and everything else needs to revolve around that. That's basically up to the shift, but mm-hmm. I mean, yeah. I mean I'm, I'm not ungrateful, my gosh, I had a huge salary and we provided so much for our family and they're so, I had amazing teams and we did great work.
Like when I stayed, when I was able to stay in my lane in HR and work with these beautiful teams I worked with, it was so amazing. It was so gratifying. It was so impactful.
There just was such a whole other big piece of this work at the senior levels that, yeah, and, and then also, I tell this story that in my career, in my 28 years in corporate, I as when I got into the senior roles, I've worked for seven CEOs, 'cause I worked for some very large Fortune 100 companies, and two of them will be lifelong mentors, friends, the whole thing. The other five, the only way I describe them is they’re narcissists. So we had some toxic leadership teams that I, I had to work on and, you know, that comes with a bit of the territory, but I, I, you know, I just thought really, I don't think I wanna do this for the last half of my, you know, one day I was sitting in my office and I was thinking about the next 15 years, kind of the last 15 years of my career, right?
50 to 65 if I'm going to retirement kind of thing. And I thought I just, it hit me one day. I thought, hmm, I'm not doing this for another 15 years. I'm not living this way. Feeling kind of empty inside, not making the impact that I wanna make, not really doing what I'm supposed to do here on this earth.
Mm-hmm. So, I didn't know what that meant at the time. I'm like, okay, that's great, Julie. Now what are you gonna do? Like, our whole life was built around my income, so it was scary.
So then jumping forward just a minute, at 52 you decided, okay, I mean, that's actually when you broke off, that's when you actually broke off.
Yeah, that, that kind of my, I'm not doing this for another 15 years, was two years before that.
Okay. I was just gonna ask you that because I've heard you speak openly about how life events, whether it be, you know, stress, you know, missing out on your children's events, serious health issues, (Oh yeah.) family led you to taking action.
So, can you take us, if you had mentioned in your book about 2009, was it when things kind of started to shift?
Yes.
Or crack or unravel, if you will?
Yes.
So, you talk about those life events and their impact on you and how they ultimately led you to basically like walk away.
Yeah, okay. For sure I should. That didn't even cross my mind, so I'm glad you asked that. So, in 2009, so the very end of 2009, around November, I live in Canada. I don't know if this was the same in the States, but the, we had a very big outbreak of, it was the virus was called H1-N1 one. Right? So, remember?
So, yeah, I remember that. Yeah.
It wasn't, it wasn't like COVID level or anything like that, but it was pretty big in Toronto where I live and you know, doctor's offices were full and all the things, so my whole family got sick and my son had very bad allergies and immunocompromised when he was younger and he got sick and, and so we always worried about him.
So anyway, we all had different levels of, of some kind of sickness. I had a sinus infection, my son had a throat infection and my husband just had regular, like he kinda had it all sickness. None of us had the virus. We all went and got tested. We were just regular sick. So about three weeks after that, in November, my husband and I are standing in our bathroom. I'm getting ready for work. We're both getting ready for work. And he said to me, this is really weird. I have this gland that's not going away. So, he's gone through this illness, and I'm like, oh, that's weird. And I looked at it and it was like, you know, like a pee maybe. And I said, okay, well like, just watch it, whatever.
And then, then it just kept growing and growing and growing. And so we, you know, started going to doctors and we started doing the whole thing. You know, long story short, a few months later he was diagnosed with after surgery. So this, this lump on his neck had grown to the size of a baseball by March, by the following March.
And finally, we went to a doctor, an ear, nose and throat, and he said like, I don't know, because he had all these tests and it was all inconclusive, uh, whether it was cancer, right? And he's like, we gotta take this out. So, he did. And they tested it, and he was diagnosed with non-Hodgkin's lymphoma at the age of 41.
And I just remember sitting in the, so we got referred to oncology here in my town, the hospital, thankfully, where I live is, is known for cancer. So, we meet with the top doctor and she's like a no-nonsense lady, just same as my husband. So I'm sitting there and she said, okay, well this is very aggressive, and we need to take you as close to death as we can, Darrell, without killing you.
And my husband looks at her and goes, okay, let's do it. And I'm in, I'm beside him thinking, am I gonna pass out here? Like I, it felt like the room was starting to spin and all of that. So, we, we, we go through that. He has three rounds of chemo. He has 30 days of radiation. And at the very end, so I'm working and at this time I'm in what I would consider the job from hell.
Okay, so I'm a vice president of HR. I've taken a new job. So, at this point now, when he is having his treatment and everything, we're into the summer. And I took this new job in February, and I knew, this is another thing, I'm gonna share this 'cause this is really important. When I met with the CEO of this company, so it was a very large transportation company, global, but I was responsible for Canada. When I met with the Canadian CEO, really nice man, really nice man, but not a, so, not a great leader in some respects. But when I shook his hand in my interview, my intuition said to me right there in that minute, this is the wrong job, don't take it. And I went through all the interview process and I took the job. Totally ignored my intuition a hundred percent.
Now my intuition probably knew what we were about to go through, well with my husband's health as well. But anyway, took the job. The most toxic leadership team I've ever been on. Like really bad stuff. Dealing, so dealing with my husband, my young kids, they're nine and 12 at the time, worrying that their father's gonna die.
We don't know what the outcome of this is gonna be. Go going through all the things. And I am so my husband, it's the September now and I go on a business trip with my work. And I'm in Vancouver, which is the other side of Canada, right? So, I live in Toronto, which would be like New York. That'd be like going from New York to LA.
So, I'm in Vancouver on business and I'm sitting in a meeting, and everything's fine. And all of a sudden, I'm like, I think I'm having a heart attack. Like I'm sitting, I'm sitting there, Genell, and I'm trying to take deep breaths and not make a scene in the movie or in the meeting. And I kind of excuse myself, and I go outside and I'm trying to walk and then my heart is like hounding outta my chest, racing like nothing I've ever felt before.
And, finally, I said, I think I need some help. Like I, I, I thought it was a heart attack, so somebody there took me to the hospital and they didn't like it either. 'cause my heart was really racing. So, my husband ended up having to travel, having come off 30 days of radiation to come be with me in Vancouver.
'cause they scheduled me for an angiogram. I remember the doctor coming in, looking at me. I was in my mid-forties at the time. He is like, you're not my regular patient. I said, I don't know what's going on. Anyway, so I have this angiogram, and he came back, and he's like, Julie, you don't have a spec of plaque in there. Nothing. All of your arteries are whistle-clean. I'm like, okay, well, that's good. He goes, this was full blown panic. He's like, you need to go see your doctor.
So, a panic attack.
Full blown panic attack. Outta the blue, right? To the point where I'm like, I'm dying of a heart attack. So, so that's when it all started.
I remember laying in that hospital bed looking at the ceiling going, th this has to stop. After I knew that I, my heart was fine and that it was panic. I'm like, this my, like, you know the book, The Body Keeps Score. Mm-hmm. I didn't, I didn't know it at the time. I read everything about that after, but I just remember laying, staring at the ceiling so that, you know, I was whatever, 47 at the time, going, something has to change drastically.
That wasn't a, I'm leaving. So then, you know, I move on from that role, take another role. It's, it was fine. Very stressful though. Great boss though. That was one of my good bosses. That company got sold, which was great 'cause I was actually an equity owner in it. And then I took a gig at the Red Cross for like 18 months.
They wanted to hire me full-time. I said no, that's when I left. I took the gig so I could do this and figure this out. Over 18 months, how am I doing this? 'cause I'm leaving. Like we, we, I'm just not doing this again for the, so now I'm up to like 50 and they begged me to stay and I'm like, I, mm-hmm. And so I left the corporate world at the end of 2019.
And if you can imagine, I was working for the Red Cross three months before COVID hit.
Oh my gosh. I didn't [inaudible].
I was sitting on the couch in my family room, and I looked at my husband and I, once we kind of figured out what was going on, I said, I, I think this would've killed me in HR, 'cause I would've been working for the Red Cross, which they were heavily involved in this.
Right, right. Anyway, obviously it wasn't meant to be, and, and I was starting my business at that time. But yeah, so my, so yeah, like that illness, so, you know, the panic in the hospital, it didn't stop there. Like, I ended up being on a stress leave a little bit after that for nine months because there was a, you know, I came home from Vancouver and I, I started thinking, okay, like, how am I gonna do this?
I have to change all the things. And I, I woke up one morning and I couldn't feel my legs, one of my legs. So, the other one I could feel sort of, and I'm like, what, what am I now paralyzed? And, you know, my heart wouldn't race like it did before, but it was still faster than normal 'cause I obviously was working through this.
I ended up getting, going to see a therapist, which was the best thing I ever did. I texted my EA, my executive assistant and said, I'm not coming in. And I basically pulled the covers over my head and couldn't get outta bed for three days.
Was it all stress-related?
All stress, other physical symptoms. So it was like just kind of an extension of the panic attack.
Right. It didn't like all of a sudden happen. And then I was fine. So that's when I went and got a therapist and I started working through all the challenges. And, and I loved what you said at the beginning because what was happening to me, if I had to describe it, is I was cracking, you're right. 'cause I had this big wall up, like I used to call it the Martha Stewart Syndrome.
Like I could keep it together. I could run a big team. I could build huge budgets. I could make strategic, very expensive decisions. I could host a birthday party for my son. I could, you know, I was gonna do it all. I was the superwoman. That's the imposter syndrome. There's actually one of them is called Superwoman.
I had it full force, like no one was gonna think that I couldn't handle this. Then throw on a potentially terminal illness with my spouse, wondering if he's gonna die or not. A very toxic leadership team, all these things. I also had, in that year, in 2010, my best friend's father, who was like my second father, our families are best friends, he died of the same cancer my husband was fighting unexpectedly. We had a $50,000 flood in our house that year. Like there was major life events through the whole year where my therapist said, Julie, one of these would've taken most people out. And what she likened it to, she said, you know, when I had to go on the stress leave, she said, think of it like running a marathon.
You just ran a marathon and you literally crawl when your husband was diagnosed, put into remission. They said, we got it. We got it. He's,he's healthy and he's been healthy ever since. And the cancer's gone. And when I heard that, she said it was like you crawled across the finish line and you just fell apart.
Mm-hmm. Because now I couldn't fall apart while he was sick, but then when he was better, I fell apart. So, yeah. And I, and honestly now I'll sit and look tell you like I let that happen. I could have left that job. I could have left that toxic work environment. I kept telling myself, I can't leave. I just started here.
We need the benefits. My husband's sick. I could have gotten another job now, you know? But in the moment, I just felt so trapped. Right. And when you feel trapped, this is when panic comes in. This is when, you know, stress comes in and anxiety and all the things. So, I mean, you know, it was all meant to happen.
Obviously, it's part of the journey and there, and because of it, what I can do with my clients now is pretty remarkable. So, I'm, I'm thankful for it that way, but yeah, no, it's, it was 2010 was probably the worst year of my life. And now I would say not the best, but most impactful in a good way now, which they can be, right?
Like often challenged. We learn more from challenge than we do from success. That is a hundred percent, right? Mm-hmm. Like it's, it's great to be successful. And I had that trajectory. Think about that. I went right up the, straight promotion after promotion, after promotion for 10 years. And then, you know, then my challenges came in.
So, what do you, it was almost like the, how would I say this? The fear or the risk of starting a new business was worth continuing in the role that you had or living the life that you had. I mean, you asked about a defining moment. Here's what I'll tell you was the defining moment. And so, my, in my last corporate position, so that was 18 months, I had to get personally involved.
So, think about this, if you're the chief, you know, I had hundreds on my team, so I wouldn't normally get involved in these personally, but I had to get personally involved in three harassment complaints. Oh, and the, so this is what's part of the work you do in HR when that kind of complaint comes in. And there's a whole process we go through, um, and, you know, we're the neutral body in the middle trying to figure out all the facts and all the things.
These three were against chiefs and two of the three were the type of complaint that if it hit the media, like it, it, you know, it could have taken down the company if there were legit, if there was legitimacy to them. So that was me. That's why I had to get involved. So there was p PR, legal counsel, like all the things, right?
And I thought, so we went through that whole process. All three of them were legitimate claims, meaning they, the claim that was made was real and on point. And I, that's what I mean about legitimate. 'cause sometimes people will make harassment complaints and it's really, when we get down to the facts, it's really a really poor relationship between an employee and their boss.
And it's not true harassment by the book kind of thing. You know, by the definition, these were full blown, pull it out of the dictionary. This is what these men were doing. And I just remember thinking, and these, these, these investigations are horrible for everybody. Women have to recount what's happened to them and all the details and witnesses and all.
It's just not a fun thing. And I remember thinking, I'm not, this is where I'm like, I am not, this is not what I signed up for. I am not gonna spend the next 15 years teaching men how to behave in the workplace. I'm just not like that, that, you know, and I'm not saying all men behave this way, that's not the case at all.
But it, it, in the last probably 10 years of my career in corporate in Canada anyway, and I know a lot of colleagues in the US and they have agreed that this something happened environmentally. I don't know about Europe, but for sure in North America, I have theories around it, but they're just theories.
How we behaved in the workplace started to change. And we, so my teams in HR would be dealing with, you know, a huge percentage of their time would either be terminating employees because we had to lay people off or harassment complaints. Huh. And I thought, that's not what I got into this for. And it's, it's, it's a reality.
It's still a reality today. If you work for a publicly traded company, you're gonna be laying people off. That is like, not when or not if it's when. Yeah. And not, I just didn't do that anymore.
Yeah. I mean, because as you said, your whole, your what you feel, your purpose is to help others, and this wasn't fulfilling that piece for you.
No, and I did help them in these processes, so I love that you said that because my philosophy on a termination meeting is go in with respect, be clear, and, you know, make sure they understand what's happening. Like, all of that is all [00:28:00] helping somebody, but that's not how I want people. Right.
You know, but especially, I mean, with the, the discrimination aspect of it, that's, that would not be fulfilling.
It's not how I wanna help people. Right. So really what I came down to is that, you know what, it's just this container. This container of corporate is not the right container for me anymore. I wanna build my own container. So, I have full autonomy over it. I have full decision-making over it. Nobody gets to tell me how to run my business 'cause it's my business. I'm the CEO. I get to make the decisions.
So, when you left, had you, if you will, planned, okay, when I leave, this is what I'm going to do? And you plan? Or did you say, I'm leaving, I'm gonna take some time, and I'm gonna figure it out?
Well, when I made the decision to leave, like I said, it was two years before I did it. So, I kind of had that, I'm not doing this anymore. So, my, I, I had conversations with my husband all the time. Okay, well like, 'cause I could have done lots of things, right? And kind of what I do now. I could have gone out full-blown consulting, but like the whole time, fractional CHRO-I coached my entire career right from the board down to the front line.
So, he said to me, well, what did you love the most? That's when I realized, so when I do consult as a fractional CHRO, it's around strategy, it's around engagement, creating, you know, culture. I love merger and acquisition work. I will work on that from a strategic perspective. So, there's very specific pieces of HR.
I'm never gonna go and do anything on compensation or health and safety, payroll, or what I call, like, the hard lines of HR. It has to be involved with people, and culture and strategy if I'm consulting. And then the other big piece was coaching. That was like a no-brainer. I'm like, yes. Like how? And so, it's kind of evolved into how do you wanna live your life?
We have choice around this. And if you could wave your magic wand, that's an exercise we do. What would you love if all was possible and available to you, which it is hint, hint, by the way. What would you love? We get them to, we do a lot of vision casting, and then we come down, that's kind of creating their summit, right?
And then we come down to the bottom of the mountain, and we start creating a plan. So that's where I've kind of incorporated strategy and action planning, 'cause that's hugely important with vision casting. And then over-arching all of that is the mindset work. 'cause that's really what it takes, especially when you leave a job like I did after 28 years. mm-hmm.
Of paycheck a few weeks, you know, bonuses, stock options, like multimillion dollar income to go be your own, you know, for the freedom, the time freedom and all the things. And be in my new container but have no idea how I'm gonna get paid. You better believe you need some serious mindset support. Right. So that's, that's hopefully that answered your question.
Yeah. So, I had that time, and I took two years to figure it out. And listen, I would tell you. I like to be totally honest when I'm sharing my story. You have to decide, like, are you willing to make some sacrifices? Mm-hmm. So, for two years, bonuses went into a bank account. You know, we looked at stock options, said, is there anything we can sell?
Do we wanna, we had a cottage at the time. We sold it. Right. We sold a second property, and it sounds so luxurious, right? But we loved our cottage, but we knew, okay, we need to have some kind of like a nest egg over here. And so, we figured out ways I could build up a little bit of a nest egg so that as I'm building this business in the beginning.
Yeah. 'cause you know, again, our life was revolved around my salary. I mean, our, my husband had his own business, and he was making good money, but the majority, like, you know, both my kids were in university at that time, and things like that. So ,we, we have to live, we have to make money. And so, I just strategically set it up so that when I did decide to do this and actually leave, I had a bit of a, a nest egg here.
Like I said, I mean, there's, if there's a will, there's a way to make it happen. Exactly. It does involve, obviously, making choices. Making choices like, okay, if I really wanna do this, then I choose to sell our cottage. Yeah. If, I mean, it's all choices.
It's, it's all, you're not trapped. Yes. You're never trapped. So, when you make, this is how it works. So, this is what most people are, the opposite with this is the mindset work. Make the decision first on anything. Right? So that we're talking about me leaving a big, lucrative corporate career. But you do this on a purse, do this on a trip, do this on, you know, I always say to people if, first of all, if they're trying to decide whether to do something, you know, and, and they have to pay money for it.
I always say to my clients, well, if it was free, would you want that? That's the first measure and they go, yeah, if it was free, I would totally do that. I would totally spend this on coaching, or I would totally buy that car or whatever. Okay, so that means you want it. So that's the first level, right? And then, so now you do, because I did this the other day with myself.
My next level of coaching, if I, for myself, to hire a coach and a mentor for myself, would be a one-on-one situation with a very, you know, seasoned coach. 'cause I've gone through masterminds and groups and all the things, and I, you know, I know a few that I would consider, and they're, and I'm talking like, they would be like a $100,000 for a year. So that's, I've never spent that on a coach. That's a lot of money, right?
And there's two, and I thought about them the other day, and one of them, I, I've been in her programs, I love her. But no, I would never spend $100,000 for her as a one-on-one coach. So, no, I said to myself, if she was offering me her services free, would I take them? And the answer was no. Not because she's not an amazing person and all the things, she just isn't going to give me what I need in coaching right now. But the other one I was like, hands down, oh my Lord, if she gave it to me free, I'd be over there in a nanosecond.
So that's kind of like a measure, like, you know, if you want it, would you, you know, so in my case, like if I had all the money in the world, would I leave this corporate job? Yes. So then, okay, I know I wanna leave, now I have to sit.
So, you make the decision first. Same thing. If I could get this purse free, would I buy it? Some people are like, no, I would never buy that purse, even if it was free. Okay then. But if it's yes. Then, then you, because once you make the decision from a mindset perspective, what happens, this is brain science, by the way.
Your reticulating activating system starts all day and you know, this Genell, this is your area. Right? All day. Okay. How are we gonna get that purse? How are, oh, look at that person has that purse. Right. You know, it starts scanning all day to help you come up with a plan to get what you want.
Right. It's all so fascinating. Yeah. Isn't it fascinating? It's like, you probably know the term, I always forget the scientific term, but when you say you want a white car, and that's all you see is white cars and, I, there's a need for that. I forget that sci, it's a psychological name, but it's the same thing.
But most people don't do it that way. Most people say, oh, when I have the money, then I'll decide.Right. And that's why they stay stuck. That's why they can't figure out how to get themselves outta these terrible situations. Women I work with all the time, well, when the kids are done university, then I'll leave. Let's hope you don't have a full-blown panic attack and get into blah, blah, blah, like I did.
Or when this happens, then I'll do that. When, then you're not deciding first. Yeah, because they think if they have to make the decision, when they make the decision, they have to do it right away. That means I have to actually do this right now.
No, that does not mean that. It just means you want this and you're gonna start figuring out how to get it. So, it's pretty interesting.
So you, you've talked some about coaching yourself, having a coach. When you've made the transition, did you have a coach immediately, or I mean, or what was your process, and what, what impact or guidance did having a coach do for you? I guess you could say, and yeah, if somebody's thinking about leaving, would you recommend a coach?
A hundred. Oh my gosh. Okay. Yeah, so I had, I didn't have a coach right outta the gate. I did about four months in, four- or five-months in. So, what I would say is yes, get yourself, actually, I would get a coach. Now, if I was doing this again, I would have a coach before I left because one, I had way more money.
I could be, I, I would've had a coach help me make the exit strategies. That's part of the work I do now, because I didn't have that. Part of the work I do with women who, 'cause a lot of my clients are still at work. They're working and building their businesses at the same time. They haven't been able to just leave yet.
They're, you know, getting their nest egg going. And a few of them, like we're in full-blown exits, exit negotiation mode. Because, especially at certain levels, I can listen to people that I work with and I can hear right away if there's a window, because this is my HR background as well, right? I can hear when there's a window that they might have to go fly through and ask for a package, and so then they get this big fat severance, and lo and behold, they've got their nest egg.
They leave and then they can, you know, so that's one option depending on the company you work for. But so, if I did it again, I would've had hired a coach ahead of time to get me through the whole transition process. The first year of my business was so incredibly rocky because I suffered from massive imposter syndrome.
I did not estimate at all the identity change that was required. I looked and shifted. I was acting like an executive over here as an entrepreneur, and those are two different identities. From a money perspective, all the things. So, if I had figured that out and had been working with the coach ahead of time, that would've probably been way quicker up to, you know, what I would consider quote unquote success.
So, yes. And coaches, first of all, here's what I would say about coaches. Be discerning. Be very clear on what you think you need at that moment. Because I believe that every coach needs a coach, but we coaches come in for a reason and a season, right? So, what is it that you need at the moment, right? So, and, and, does that person offer that? And have they got what you want? ‘cause there's a lot of noise. And what I would say is not the most authentic marketing going on, on, especially in the online space. Mm-hmm.
If you are in a position where you're later in life and you've, you've, you know, built up your career or wherever you're at in your work and you wanna leave, go find someone who's done it, because it's not for the faint of heart, especially the identity change, the mindset work that's required.
Like most of the women I work with, you know, we work on strategy, but not much. These women are strategic. They know how to put a business plan in place. They know how to build a strategy of a business. They're not hiring me to help them build their business. I definitely go in there and make suggestions and things.
They are hiring me to help them move to the identity of a CEO of their own business, right? And a founder. And when they are doubting themself immensely that I'm there to help them with mindset and leadership and that sort of a thing. We work on strategy, obviously, but, so make sure the coach that you're considering has what you want, has done what you wanna do.
So many of them haven't, and they're out, they, or they've figured out an online marketing tactic that's worked or something for them. And so now that's what they're selling, and they're selling that. You know, oh, you'll, you'll get rich overnight, and you'll replace your income, all the things you wanna hear.
Right? So just be really discerning on do, do they really have? But yes, I think that if someone wants to leave, even if they haven't left yet, they should be working with a coach to do that, because coaches are there to my definition of a coach, when I know that I have done my job as a coach, that is when my clients say to me, wow, I have never thought of it that way. As soon as I hear that, I'm like, bingo, I've done my job. I'm just here to help them. Create a maybe a different perspective on things. Mm-hmm. Right? A different way to look at things. I can't make them do anything. When I was early in coaching, this was a challenge for me because I'm so in the, like, I roll up my sleeves with my clients, you know, the majority of my business is one-on-one coaching.
I can't coach someone if I don't feel like I can help them really get the results back to the help, like real leadership, real results. So, you know, at first I was dr. It was sometimes, it was like dragging a horse to water and trying to make them drink. Right? You can't do that as a coach. You can lead them to the water, but they have to drink.
Mm-hmm. And once people realize that the work is like, I'm here we're, I say that as coaches, we're like the tour guides. We can help, we can show you to go left, we can show you to go right. We'll give you the pros and cons of all that, but you have to decide, are we going left? Are we going right? 'cause you're like the driver of the bus.
That's another thing, and I share that because I had a client once, and she said, once I figured out that Julie's job isn't to fix me, then things started soaring in my life. When she realized it was her responsibility, and I'm just there to guide her based on what she wants that that was probably the best testimonial I ever got from that perspective.
And when, so I, you know, when I meet with people around coaching, that's the first thing we talk about is making sure they understand that. It's, the commit commitment needs to come from them. It's their responsibility to change their life. I can give them so many tools to do that and so much guidance and support and trusted advisory support. But in the end, I can't do it for you.
Any women, women starting businesses, especially starting businesses, but you know, wanting to change their careers, you know, making whatever that midlife changes mm-hmm. Gets, why do it alone? Right, and, and let me tell you, it's happening at rapid pace. Like women are leaving the workforce 50 plus at rapid pace, pace right now.
So ,you're, I was gonna ask you, why do you think midlife, maybe is a good time, you know, to make that switch? Or why can it be so powerful?
If you don't mind, I'll get a little spiritual here 'cause I am a very spiritual person. 'cause I believe that we are spirits, souls, whatever you want to call it, with an intellectual mind, having a human experience in this body.
Okay. So, my answer to that question, Genell, is, and it's only come in the last year for me. I believe that the purpose of every soul on this planet is to express itself to its fullest potential. That is what our soul wants to do, whether it's what we're saying, businesses we're building, purpose, alignment, all those things.
It wants to be the grandest version of itself. It wants to experience life to the fullest. We hear that all the time. I wanna experience life to the fullest. That is what your soul wants. And so, I think what's happening is women like 45 plus, they're like, I'm not experiencing this. Right? Like, I'm, I think their souls are waking up.
I think they're, you know, and this isn't for everyone. Lots of people are still on, I call it the herd. Lots of people are still on autopilot, feeling trapped, all the things. But I, but I hear from women all the time, oh my god, I, I just know there's something different I'm supposed to be doing or more, or, but I don't know what it is. I have to figure it out. That when you have those kinds of thoughts and feelings, that literally to me, is your soul going “we are on the wrong path.” That was me. My soul was like, Julie, you're doing the right work, but you're in the wrong container. This isn't the container. That's why I felt so awful all the time. That's why everything was so hard and the dredge and it got to panic.
When you are aligned and doing what you're meant to do in this world, it's, that's the feeling. Lightness. You jump outta bed in the morning because you get to do what you want, you what you're doing. Doesn't mean you're not having challenges. Doesn't mean, I call them wall kicker days, right? It doesn't mean you don't have doubt in all the things you still do, but you know, you have this, this, this alignment within you. So, I think that's what's happening with women. They're, they're, you know, the kids are often are gone or growing or gone to university and, you know, they're coming into a different element of their life.
They, they're having hormonal changes. That can bring this on as well. And you know, you kind of get to the back half of your life or the start of it, potentially. Let's say you live to a hundred, you're coming down the other side of the mountain.
I think that's when I sat there that day and said, I, I'm not doing this. I will not live like this for another 15 years. That's where that came from. I think. I think it came directly from my soul because your soul, your soul's purpose is to experience life to the fullest. And of course, that means something different for everybody. I mean, you just did that huge challenge in Whistler, like that to me is so incredible.
But not anything I have a desire to do. Right? Or people who jump outta planes, I always think of them, right? Like that is they're, it's somebody who's gonna throw themself outside of a plane, whether you're tan tandem or not. That's soul-level stuff that's happening as far as I'm concerned, right? I have no desire ever to do that, ever.
So, my soul's different than yours, and we both came here for different reasons. Yeah. And when we have that, that dis discord or anxiety, tension, you know, stress, overwhelm all, we are not meant to feel that way. Now again, of course, even when you're doing work that you love and you're aligned to, you're gonna have those feelings.
That's just, that's the human part of you. But not 24/7. So, is it a risk? I think it's back to perspective, right? Would it have, what risk would it have been to me had I stayed in that toxic environment? You know, when I think of that, I start getting, oh my god, like I get really not great feelings coming.
And trust me from it would be easy. It would be easy to go back and do that work and, get paid every two weeks and all the things. But it would be horrible because it's not what I'm meant to do or how I'm meant to do it. And when I say that, I mean in a nine to five working for a company. I can do gigs as a fractional CHRO. I love doing that, going in and helping and coming out kind of thing.
But, you know, I've been studying a lot lately. The, the work from Gay Hendricks, the Big Leap, the, the zone of excellence versus the zone of genius, right? So I was a gr, I was a really good executive, I was considered top talent my whole career. That's why we had so many, all that was my zone of excellence. That was not my zone of genius. I could only make so much impact in the world, in that company, in my own company. I can impact, I'm impacting women globally now. I have clients from all over the world. So now I'm in my zone of genius because I'm making a difference in the world with the work we're doing.
That's the difference, right? So, mm-hmm. Yeah. Some days are really hard and, and there's months where you're like, oh god, like, you know, hopefully I get all the things that are supposed to be coming in, right? Right. The whole, there's some uncertainty, a hundred percent, but it's, to me, it's worth it. Worth it. It's worth it. Yeah.
Because you, and, and maybe this leads right into it, but you said that I've heard you make reference to creating a life from the inside out. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. What does that mean? Is it tying in with the, to you, what does that mean? Is it tied into this whole concept, you know, of alignment and or having your work circle around your life versus the other way around?
Yes. Yes. All of that. So, what I would say around, what I mean by that is I had a, I had a discussion with a client a couple weeks ago and we were talking about the weather and where she lives in the world, you know, the weather impacts her and makes her unhappy. And we, you know, we kind of had a really kind of heated debate about it, which was great.
'cause I said, it's not the weather that's making you unhappy. And she vehemently believes it was the weather, right? And I'm like, there's nothing external to us that makes us happy or unhappy. We put meaning to all those things that we think it does. Your happiness goes with you, or your unhappiness goes with you. It's within you. We don't do happy. We be happy. So it's the concept of being versus doing.
And I love this so much because when I say talking about the inside out, 95% of the world I would say, but I often talk about this from a perspective of leadership. 95% of the world and leaders follow a model. I call it the leadership model, but they follow a model where they, it, it's, we call it do, have, be.
So that means we think, okay, what do I need to do to have what I wanna have? And then I'll be. So, what do I need to, so let's use a corporate example, right? Mm-hmm. So, this would've been me. I followed this my entire career. Okay. Or not my entire career up until promoting to a vice president. So, I always used to think, okay, what do I need to do to have that next job? And then I'll feel more successful, then I'll be happy, then I'll be fulfilled, then I'll be whatever. Right? Fill in the blank. Yep.
And I got some advice from a mentor. I said, look, I really wanna be promoted to vice president. And, and he said to me, okay, well here's what I want you to do. I want you to go out and this was a big company, I want you to go and ask all the vice presidents who are they being? I'm like, what? Talking about, who are they being? I'd never heard that. I'm like, what do you mean? And he tried to explain it to me, and I'm like, okay.
So, I thought about it for a couple days, and I went. I'm very coachable. So, I went, and I asked a bunch of them, okay, like in your job, like, who are you being?
And nine out of 10 of them were like, what are you talking about? Right. One of them knew exactly what I was talking about, and he answered it in full for like an hour for me. And what he described to me is how he shows up. Mm-hmm. How he thinks, the thoughts he has about himself, the limiting thoughts that he has, and that he, when he feels them or hears them, how he changes them.
'cause he knows it's a choice. He knows thinking is a choice. How he creates his own reality with this thought. I was like, what are you, anyway? So I got the concept, and I thought, okay. What he's saying to me is that I wanna be a vice president. I need to start being one right now in the role that I was in, and I did, I started acting like the a vice president. I started making decisions as I was a vice president. I started being as if I was a vice president. I just, and I designed what that was. I said, okay, what does a vi, what does this mean? That's the beauty of this work. You get to design what being means. And I started being her, and I was promoted to vice president within four months.
Wow. And people were like, why are you doing that? That's not your job. Just you don't need to. I'm like, I don't care. And then what I realized, Genell, is I'd done that my whole career. I just didn't know I was doing it. I didn't have like a label on it like this. And that's why I was promoted so fast my whole career 'cause I always was operating as the ver the next version of me right now.
And so, you can do that in any, if you want health in your life, be health now. Yes. I mean, you know, one of the things I'm doing with my clients right now for the whole, we do a, every Monday we have a, we call it Monday Morning Mindset. And so, we do a training and a teaching on mindset every Monday morning, and the whole, for the next whole month we're doing Be wealth. What does it mean to be wealth? Not have wealth, be it. Because if you want wealth as an outcome, you need to be wealth now. And do things as that wealth, because the doing comes out of the being.
When you be a certain way, the, your actions automatically come out of that, and then you get what you want. So, be, do, have is the way you want to. Is, and, being, and doing are equally important. You can't just be, right? We have to take action. But I think Be is a little bit higher. To me it's like a little bit higher, really understanding.
And that's why my business was so rocky in the first year because I wasn't being a CEO, I was being a corporate executive in my own job. Once I started being a CEO of my own business, everything changed.
Thank you for sharing that. I think that's so impactful. Yeah. It's a powerful leadership team. Like a, a light bulb kind of, you know, going off.Yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Hopefully that helps people.
I see we're kind of getting, we're getting short on time.
It feels like we've been talking for five minutes,
So, I wanna make sure I honor that. So, I have a couple questions. Yes. Uh, more remaining questions, and one is when I ask every guest who has made a major life pivot such as yourself mm-hmm. How did you have to reinvent yourself to become the person you are today? And maybe the question is, did you have to reinvent yourself? And if you did, what did you have to do?
You know what I would say, Genell, and people might, people might roll their eyes when they say this, and that's okay. I don't believe I invented myself.
Mm-hmm. I, I hone, if you had asked me this four years ago, I would've answered that question that way. But honestly, now, today, what I know I did was I remembered who I was. I went within, and I remembered who I was. So, when I was a corporate executive, I was cut. I used to say I was cut off at the neck. I lived in my head.
If you ask me anything about soul and spirituality and inner, inner strength and, you know, mindset, even mindset kind of, but you know, there I would've thought, what are you talking about? I would've thought that was so woo. This is not woo, by the way, this is science. Mm-hmm. This is universal laws, but I just remembered, I, I got back to who I was.
Like, who is Julie? Like who, who am I? And you know, not the roles I play. Not mother, not, you know, executive, CEO, all the things. Who am I really in my core? Right? And once I started being her, that's when it was like, that's when everything aligned.
Because I think a lot of times people, I know myself in the past, you know, you ident, well, how would I say this? You, I, you, you identify with your identity, meaning you know her. Yeah. Like you said, you're a mother, or you're a corporate executive. You're this, that, but that's not who you are. No, that's what you do.
Exactly. Well, and, and who you are. I would say, let's use motherhood just for a second, because this is, this can be a touchy one. Okay. Because I talk with women, they're like, what do you mean? And I'm, they, you know, of course that's part of your identity if you have children. Mm-hmm. Of course. And it's probably one of the most important parts, right, for many women. But as soon as I say to them, okay, so how old were you when you had your first child? You know, whatever. 22, 25, 28, whatever I was, I was, uh, 27. Okay, well, who were you then? From zero to 27. And then the light bulb goes on. They're like, oh, okay. I get you haven't always been a mother. So yes, it's a huge part of who you are and your identity. I'm not saying that. I wanna know who, who's underneath the mother.
Mm-hmm. Who's underneath the executive? Who came to this earth? What's in your soul? What you know that, and that's where we go. So, it's not easy. This is not easy work. That's when they go back to going, oh my gosh. I remember her. It gives me goosebumps. I get teary every time when they come back and go, I remember her.
And the tool I use around that to help them is human design. It's been huge for me. But you know, there's lots of different tools people, coaches can use. But yeah, when they remember who they are really and why they're here, their whole world, that's the inner work. And then everything external to them and their world changes. 'cause you, nothing's gonna change unless you change first.
So that's what I mean by inner work. You have to go within to change, and remember who you really are and get aligned in that. And then, you know, women hire me because they want to get promoted to the next level, or they wanna start a business, and then come back and go, I was gonna leave my husband but I'm not now. I love that man to death. Like everything in their life starts changing. Or my god, I couldn't even talk to my daughter last week. We're we? We just had the biggest hug. You know, things. I hear that all the time because, because she changed. She went within, she did the work, and everything around her started to change. Cool. Yeah, it's pretty powerful.
I, okay, one last question, and then we'll wrap it up. Okay. Okay. So, for the women listening who feels a pull towards something new but isn't sure, what do you wanna say, she's brave enough, you know, she's hearing that inner critic. She is like, oh, I don't know if I can leave what I'm leading. But it's, it's all, you know, it's getting louder. What do you want her to know, or what actions would you suggest she take?
What I want her to know is she's not trapped. She can do anything that she wants. She's meant to do anything that she wants. I always say to my clients, and actually anyone who crosses my path, if you have an, if you have a thought cross your mind. It is meant for you to pursue it, or it never would've crossed your mind. I'm sure there's like, it's never crossed my mind to go do that race that you did or that climb. Mm-hmm. But listening to you, I'm like, wow, that's so amazing. Da da da. It never crossed my mind 'cause I'm not meant to do it. Right. So, listen to your thoughts.
Your thoughts are hugely. Thought energy is probably the most powerful energy you have. But yeah, you can do it, and your, it's your ego telling you. So, you, if you get this idea or this inspirational hit that comes straight from your soul and, then your ego kicks in and goes, no, no, no, that's too risky. We wouldn't know. We can't do that for the 'cause your ego's job is to keep you safe. Its job is to keep you alive. That's why we don't have to remember to have our heartbeat or any of the things, right. It does not want you out there risking or what it, you know, what we're deeming as risk. So, I would just want her to know that she's not trapped.
She can do anything that she wants and go talk to someone, go find some support to just even flush it out. I come out of a three-month coaching with an executive coach and go, you know what? I don't wanna start my own business. I still wanna stay over here. I just need to go find another company where I, my boss really respects me.
That happens all the time. Right? Or whatever you, but you know, but don't do it alone. Get some support. Talk to someone, a friend. If you wanna hire a coach or a mentor, maybe you have a mentor in your organization that's not, you know, in your direct line, whatever, just you're not alone. And there are so many women in this boat right now, that's why we're creating this movement.
Mm-hmm. 'cause we wanna create a container where women can come in and there's new stuff coming down the pike, but where women can come in and go, oh my god, I'm with my people. They feel the same way I do. They have the same doubts. They have the same questions. They have the same fears, but they want X, Y, and Z, some kind of version of that, right? We need more communities like that for women that are 50 plus, right? Or 45 plus.
Thank you for that advice. I mean, I think that's great wisdom for, for women to hear who are really considering or torn and pulled with, with that thought.
Just make the decision, right? Like remember, you're just making a decision of what do you really want. What would you really love? You don't have to do anything. You know, we, you can work with someone after to create the action plan that feels really right for you. That doesn't mean like, oh my god, I gotta leave corporate right away, and how am I gonna pay the bill? You know, they get into the whole what ifs.
Just make the decision. Do you wanna stay in this environment you're in now? And if so, what does that look like if you loved it? Or if you don't, what would that look like? If you had whatever it is that you want. And a lot of women, I'll tell, I'll say this to to end because I know women will re relate to this.
If you're sitting here listening to this going, this sounds all great, but I have no idea what I want. Are you kidding? I've been last on the list for the last 20 years. I don't get to decide what I want. This person needs this from me and the ki, you know all the things. I get it. I hear you. I get it. I was there. I put myself there, by the way.
But I'll tell you, my children now will tell , like, mom, you can do nothing different. You can never go back to corporate in the way that you were. All the things, because they see the changed woman that I am and, ha, because they got the brunt of me when I was unhappy and trapped and sick and all the things. They now are like, please mom, just keep doing what you're doing. The world needs you. So your kids are watching.
And what an example you are setting for them, by the way. Yes. It's fabulous. Exactly. Thank you. Yes.
Thank you so much for sharing your story with such honesty, depth, and obviously from your heart. And what I appreciate most is how you remind us that success doesn't have to cost us, doesn't have to cost us our health, our joy, or ourselves, and that it's never too late to choose differently.
Such a re, I mean, for me, this conversation was such a reminder that when change feels scary or uncertain, especially later in life, it actually means that our brain is trying to keep us safe. Yeah. As you mentioned, it's trying to keep us safe. Mm-hmm. So, with awareness, support, and intention, we can gently expand.
Hmm. It doesn't have to be abrupt, right? We can gently expand what once felt familiar. So, for those listening, if this conversation resonated with you and you are ready to stop wondering what's next and start designing a light that truly fits who you are, I encourage you to reach out to Julie. I will include all of her information in the show notes.
And Julie, though, what is maybe the best way for them to get in into contact with you. I think, well, you can always go on my website. There's, you know, a little link there that we can book a call that we have. I'd love to hop on a call, but you can, or you can listen to me on my podcast. We share a lot of this information there, According to Who with Julie Cober.
And, or you can just, you know, DM me on Instagram or send me a message on LinkedIn. That's probably where I spend the majority of my time. If you wanna kind of connect privately, but follow me over there too, 'cause we share all of this all the time over there. So yeah, you can, you can, if you wanna get right on a phone call and chat, then the, the link is on my website juliecober.com. But you can DM me in Instagram or LinkedIn. So, I'm, I would love, I'm, I would love meeting with women. I love hearing their stories. I love just giving little tidbits to, you know, and there's some new things coming down the pike too, in, in the Legacy Leadership Academy. So, keep an eye on that. Oh, and the other thing I would say is if you're interested, if something's resonated, on my website up at the top, you can join our newsletter.
So, every two weeks I send out a newsletter to my list and, you know, it's, it's powerful. It's powerful information that we share every couple weeks, and book recommendations, journal entries, just different things that can help you make your decisions and move through to where you wanna be in life. Great.
Again, thank you Julie, and thank you to you, my listeners.
Thank you for what you’re doing.
Oh, thank you.
Thank you for being here, my listeners, for choosing to renew yourself in this season of life. And I will see you on the next episode of RenewHer. Bye everyone.
Thank you for joining me for this episode of RenewHer. If today's conversation sparks something in you, don't let it fade. Take even a small step toward what's next. If you've found value in what you heard, please subscribe, leave a review, or share this podcast with a woman who's ready to take her next bold step. Together we're building a community of strong, resilient women navigating what's next with courage and purpose. Until next time, stay energized and keep embracing what's possible.